|Surfing The Apocalypse
The following is an exclusive interview Surfing The Apocalypse conducted with Disclosure Project witness John Maynard, U.S. Army Retired - Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA).
This interview was conducted via email over a period of several weeks by Theresa de Veto for Surfing The Apocalypse.
Where possible, when certain technologies or people are mentioned in the interview, links to information on those subjects and/or people are provided. It is recommended that you follow these links and review the information contained there, as well as search out information on your own.
Surfing the Apocalypse is denoted as SURFING. John Maynard is denoted as MAYNARD.
The views expressed here are not necessarily the views of Surfing The Apocalypse, the interviewer, or any of the affiliated websites.
JOHN MAYNARD'S OPENING STATEMENT
MAYNARD: One might ask, with a career that includes a background in counterintelligence for both military purposes and drug trafficking, 'how did you become involved in UFOs?'
My involvement was probably more happenstance than anything else. I became involved while overseas in Germany, Turkey and Korea. These areas were not noted for a lot of UFO activity. I was primarily afforded the opportunity to investigate peripherally a few incidents and implement disinformation or misinformation programs to divert attention away from the military and toward the paranormal and/or UFO [followers] in those areas. However, a point I never revealed to the military, was that my grandmother brought me up believing that UFOs existed.
Regardless of that point, I was still a staunch conservative (politically) and placed my military duties ahead of my beliefs. I had a 'country, duty, and honor'-type attitude. I believed that because of my dedication, and what appeared to be naivety on my part, my military superiors did not question my actions when it came to debunking UFO sightings. However, I became very intrigued as to why UFOs were not to become public knowledge and, that they (the government) preferred that any UFO information for public consumption stay in the realm of the paranormal and/or the unreliable UFO resources.
It took me several years to figure out that this blatant disregard for public opinion was a plan designed to keep and maintain the pressure of proof on certain elements of our society.
The plan was basically to place the burden of proof on the UFO researchers and to steer the public away from the military organizations that were directly involved in UFO research. In this plan I deduced that the military was using the media to keep these UFO researchers from making too much of the issue by having the media brand them as kooks, weird, paranoid and unbelievable; better yet, by having people who go around chasing after shadows in a belief that UFOs are real and the government is hiding something.
To date, this plan has worked well above average, and the general public still has an opinion that follows what ever the media tells them.
SURFING: Can you tell me about the pivotal point at which you decided to move out of the realm of disinformation in the UFO field and into the belief that disclosure was needed? How did you come to the decision that your beliefs should take precedence over your military duties?
MAYNARD: Pivotal point! It was more of a period of enlightenment, from disinformation to disclosure. I do not believe that there was any one point that I can say: 'this was the day and/or the hour.' I can tell you the exact day and hour I quit smoking, or when I became a Christian, but disclosure was, and is, something entirely different. It was more of an attitude change on my part.
If you want to pin it down to when it started to happen, I guess it was in the early 1970's while I was in Germany. It was also the time of the famous LA Times publishing of the Pentagon Papers and Daniel Ellsberg. I was in charge of a US/NATO classified repository and the Pentagon Papers caused me to inventory everything in the repository, right down to the last page. Part of the Ellsberg papers were classified Top Secret Cosmic, which is a NATO classification. Since I was at an air defense site, that particular document was in my repository, so we had to account for everything. This caused my office an untold amount of work inventorying all the documents. It was a page-by-page inventory.
It was during that time that I realized just how much the government was hiding under its classification and disclosure blanket. Even newspaper reports that had become part of the file were being classified. It appeared to me that they literally did not want anyone to know what they knew. I guess curiosity got the best of me at that point. After that incident, I started to pay serious attention to what was going on, particularly when it came to the classification of documents. I, more or less, became an official source to ask about classifying documents, which meant full research of the documents surrounding the one being classified.
They say that hindsight has 20/20 vision. I could have turned illegal at that point and made copies on printer paper of the pages pertaining to UFO incidents. However, my security oath and duty to country stopped me from going that extra measure to the illegal. I have to tell you I seriously thought about it; however, I could not come to the point of making copies of any particular pages relating to UFO sightings and other encounters. I guess I was too much of a Boy Scout and I detested the thought of going to prison. Ah, yup, I am a big chicken when it comes to that.
The progression of this change in attitude and thoughts continued. While I was stationed in Turkey I finally came to the conclusion that disclosure was needed. It took about 6 years to get to this point. It was also the time when I had become a Christian and was really having turmoil within myself as to which way to take a disclosure program and/or to finish my military career. I really had no means by which to accomplish this without literally going to jail. Call it providence, or whatever, upon leaving Turkey I was assigned to DIA headquarters in the Pentagon. At that point I realized that it might be best to wait and see what else I could learn about UFOs, what the government was doing with the information and why they considered UFOs a threat to public knowledge.
That day was probably the day I made up my mind that something had to be done, and that I was being afforded the opportunity to gain information that the public does not have, and probably will never have, without disclosure.
Actually, I still have difficulty with stepping out and telling what I know, but I also firmly believe that it is the time for disclosure. Full disclosure!
SURFING: What exactly do you mean when you say "full disclosure?"
MAYNARD: Exactly what it means! I feel that the government should come clean and release all the information and let the American people decide what should be done with it.
Surprisingly enough, or contrary to studies done by the military and other government agencies, I believe that American citizens and the world population as a whole are ready for this kind of disclosure. It has been far too long in coming. Even at that I doubt that the government will release everything at one time. Just a simple disclosure that UFOs exist and contact has been made with alien beings is feared by the government.
SURFING: You state: "Just a simple disclosure that UFOs exist and contact has been made with alien beings is feared by the government." Did you personally see any evidence in your work with the government that contact has been made? If so, can you tell us specifically what this 'contact' entails?
MAYNARD: Personally, yes, as listed in the documents I was in charge of. I also knew several people who flew in and out of Nellis AFB on the Janet flights out of Las Vegas McCarran International Airport. These were government-chartered flights (unmarked) from McCarran directly to Nellis/Area 51. That's right, the planes had no identification at all marked on them. One friend is a safety engineer, we had discussed his Vegas trips, but he would never admit flying to Area 51 until I confronted him about a photo I had seen of him boarding a Janet Flight. After that confrontation, he admitted to seeing aircraft the government had, ours and theirs (alien), parked in hangers and underground parking areas. He would admit to nothing else, and we discontinued our relationship.
Two other friends discussed everything that they did at Area 51 with me. They knew me before I retired, and [of] my interest in UFO material. Yet, when I asked them to come forward along with me and others to testify, they flatly refused and asked me to never speak to them again, particularly if I went ahead with the Disclosure Project. I have agreed with their wishes, yet we speak on friendly terms. But never mention Area 51 or any other matters concerning UFOs.
SURFING: What is a Janet Flight?
MAYNARD: Janet Flights are government shuttle flights that take personnel from Las Vegas to Nellis AFB/Area 51. There have been several shows on Discovery and The Learning Channel exposing these flights. As I mentioned earlier, after seeing a photo of a friend of mine boarding one of these flights and confronting him with the evidence which he had denied for three years, it allowed him to open up and describe some of the work he did. What he told me only confirmed what I already knew from other conversations. He only confirmed that UFOs exist and that there has been alien contact, but refused to discuss the aliens. I did not press him further on this matter, as he was very upset at giving me that much, and I respect him for what he was willing to provide. He has long since retired from that job and I no longer have contact with him, nor do I know where he resides now. He preferred it that way.
SURFING: Can you tell us about the most convincing evidence you have encountered? Share with us what your testimony for The Disclosure Project details.
MAYNARD: Not any one thing was most compelling except for, at the time, classified satellite photos and radar imagery taken during different compartmental photographic missions, such as Talent Keyhole (TK11) and by the OMNI satellites. I am sure they are still classified. In this respect, remember the book and movie The Falcon and the Snowman? The book provided some of the most accurate information placed in public hands about our government's covert operations.
As for what this information means to the Disclosure Project, it is multi-faceted. First, it provides substantiation that documents do exist, as I can identify the kind and classification of them. Secondly, it provides backup documentation to other witnesses. Lastly, it establishes a basis for congressional hearings, if nothing else, to clear the problems with congressional apathy.
SURFING: So, you believe because you are able to identify the kind of classification that these documents carry that this will help in the location and declassification of these documents?
MAYNARD: Yes, I believe that I could lead investigators to documents that would be of very valuable assistance in uncovering the fact that the government has known about the UFO and alien contact program for years.
SURFING: Many theories have been put forth in regard to UFOs; they have been called everything from extraterrestrial to multidimensional, to government black ops projects, to demonic entities. From your research and knowledge, of what do you believe the UFO phenomena consists?
MAYNARD: A very loaded question to say the least! I guess I would have to answer, 'D': 'all of the above'! Information and evidence became available to our government, mainly in the black ops area, as you call it, which is basically covert intelligence or operations under deep cover and compartmentalization. The information the government accumulated gave credence and support to all of the theories: UFOs, extraterrestrials, multidimensional travel, and for those in the religious movement, what can be referred to as demonic.
Let me put it this way: we live in a very settled but dynamic universe, it is ever- changing; yet it continues steadily in the same direction. We are not "to be the masters of this universe" nor are any of its inhabitants that are known to exist therein. However, I have a problem with this word "phenomenon", particularly as it relates to sightings and encounters that are a matter of fact. Labeling these events as "phenomenon" is suppression of the event by a very refined disinformation program that is in place, which is automatically mimicked i.e. "reported" by the media. This serves in keeping the subject of UFOs in the realm of fantasy or "phenomena" as reported.
SURFING: A persistent legend in regard to flying saucers is that at the end of World War II, after Germany had been defeated, a select group of NAZI military personnel and scientists escaped capture from the Allied troops and established a secret base in Antarctica, where they continued to develop advanced aircraft that may have been based on extraterrestrial technologies.
MAYNARD: There were many, many stories and tall tales that came from WWII; my two uncles, John and Eric, loved to tell these exaggerations of war over and over. Even though my uncle John did work on General Patton's twin mounted 50cal half track and uncle Eric flew in the Burma Air Lifts, they could tell some whoppers. And, since my grandmother raised me during the WWII era, and because of her interest in UFOs, my uncles --who were more like older brothers to me-- would spice their stories with some UFO remark. This usually brought about much laughter from everyone.
To answer your question: I have heard the story of the German escape to Antarctica, of space ships being built, and subsequent bases on the moon. However, I have never seen anything in writing or mentioned in any conversation I had regarding documents. If there were any truth to it, it was beyond my area of classification and responsibility.
SURFING: From your knowledge, have you seen anything that would make you believe that any of the UFO sightings are/were craft of this nature?
MAYNARD: No, although I did read certain documents that indicated our own abilities in this area: back-engineered equipment, propulsion systems, and alien vehicles that could provide us with the capability of traveling great distances from this planet. I have also had recent conversations in this area, but I am not prepared to go into this in detail at this time. I need to make further inquires and confirm this information from alternate sources before making a complete statement on these government activities.
SURFING: How does what you have learned regarding UFOs relate to your beliefs as a Christian?
MAYNARD: It is a very delicate balance, which has caused me to question, at times, what I believed. Each time, this questioning has only strengthened my beliefs as a Christian. I have to admit that at first it bothered me a lot and it still does, to some degree, today. However, as I became more knowledgeable in both UFO information and Biblical eschatology, I began to see correlations between incidents in the Bible that related directly to my knowledge of UFOs. Which is something that I really catch flak about from some of my peers in the religious community. Particularly from those that are not as familiar with UFO research as I am, and, at times, are not all that familiar with the Bible, either.
Anyone can ask me questions like:
Is there a GOD?
Is He involved with us?
Are there UFOs?
Are Extraterrestrials involved with us?
And my answer to all of these questions would have to be YES! Can I explain my position on this? Probably not to the satisfaction of any Biblical scholar. But it has become a truth and belief solidly in place in my life.
SURFING: When speaking of the balance between your beliefs as a Christian and your knowledge of UFOs, you state: "I began to see correlations between incidents in the Bible that related directly to my knowledge of UFOs." Can you give an example?
MAYNARD: First, I would like to state that my discovery of these parallels predated my involvement with the Internet, and mainly was due to studies I was involved in at the time, pre-1980. Since then I have discovered that there are numerous websites and feature articles attesting to these facts available through the Internet.
Regarding my studies, the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Psalms, and both books of Chronicles and Kings gave me reason to question these writings in line with my knowledge of UFO disinformation programs. Further studies in Daniel and his accounts of "the end times" (a term I do not like to use freely) and Ezekiel's "wheel in a wheel" flying craft, along with accounts in Chronicles and Kings concerning the "Chariots of Fire", were the most conclusive proof that UFOs have been visiting this planet for at least five millennia.
SURFING: You state: "Regarding my studies, the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Psalms, and both books of Chronicles and Kings, gave me reason to question these writings in line with my knowledge of UFO disinformation programs."
What do you mean? Are you saying you found evidence of disinformation in the Bible, or that the writings of the Bible conflicted with what you were doing in the field of disinformation?
MAYNARD: Let me try and clarify this: No! I did not find any disinformation in the Bible. When it came to specifics in the Bible, the text provided insight into secular statements as to their dis- or mis-information agendas, which made them easily discernable to myself and other readers where I point it out. Most commented that: "I never thought the Bible would prove that the Government would lie about something like UFOs."
SURFING: Can you give an example of text in the Bible that suggests the government would lie about UFOs?
MAYNARD: My, you do like to put a person to the test. OK, if you turn to the book of Daniel Chapter 7 verses 9-14, when the government is presented with this text indicating a cataclysmic war may occur in the Middle East upon the return of Christ --which can be related directly to the biblical passages Revelation 18:11-14; Acts 1:9-11; and Ezekiel 1:1-8-- [these passages all refer to the way the Christ departed from this earth and will return] the government generally states that it is not true and that the text is merely speculation and open to interpretation. To that I ask, what is happening today?
Where it is clearer, as in Ezekiel 8:1-8, the description of the craft he sees is fairly definitive as some type of aircraft. The government's position is non- existent; they state 'interpretation', but never comment directly. Two very good examples of machines in production today, yet the government will take no position. However, when questioned about UFOs, the government refuses to admit that there might be a possibility, yet, will contrive a fictional story to satisfy the media.
A very good recent example, the fireball seen along the East Coast from Canada to Virginia. It was reported that the fireball burned the corn in a Pennsylvania field, but no debris was found. Within a few days, NASA states that the corn was not burned, a very large contradiction from eyewitnesses and journalist from several news media. Now, who is lying? And this was the simplest of sightings, albeit not UFO.
The government has shown the public this kind of disregard for years and I cannot think of anything else to call it but a lie. It sure isn't the truth. Maybe I am splitting hairs, but can you tell when the government is telling the truth? Everyone hopes that everything the government says is true, yet some of the article sure stretches the imagination.
SURFING: Do you fear that you might be reprimanded for bringing any of this evidence out now?
MAYNARD: No! And yes! However, I think I am at a position in life where I am comfortable in either case. Also, that my knowledge along with the other witnesses all speaking the same language gives me comfort. For the government to bring reprisals upon one, or all, would be more damaging in the case of rebuttal.
SURFING: Do you believe that the U.S. government has had active on-going communications with alien species from beyond this earth?
MAYNARD: Yes! There is no doubt in my mind that this is occurring.
SURFING: Can you tell us from where these extraterrestrials originate?
MAYNARD: Where do they come from? That is probably the $64 million dollar question for everyone, except certain government offices. Personally, I do not know, as I have never read or conversed with one of them to find out. I have heard all the rhetoric that has been spouted about Greys from Alpha Centauri or Sirius, Reptilians (which I had never heard of before seeing the term used on the Internet), and then of course, the term of "Nordic-looking aliens". Therefore, I do not believe that I can provide any insight into this question. However, this does not mean that I lack knowledge of their existence, albeit only Greys. I have never read anything on any other species.
SURFING: Are you saying that in your work with the U.S. Intelligence Community you have seen evidence that the "Greys" are actual extraterrestrial biological entities?
MAYNARD: EBEs, I do not know what else to call them --do you? They are not from this planet, but their interaction with the main populace of this planet has been very limited by government actions.
SURFING: How has interaction with the Greys been limited by government actions?
MAYNARD: Limited was probably too gentle of a word for what is happening. The government is trying to directly control all contact between the Greys and the populace. This is one of the reasons for the hostilities spoken of between them, and why we may hear from the Greys long before the government wants disclosure.
SURFING: What do you know if anything regarding the motivations behind the visitors to our earth?
MAYNARD: I can speculate like everyone else, yet some of this information was way beyond what my clearance was allowed to read. I do know that some of that motivation has to do with our growth, not only as a species, but also as a future member of an interplanetary social community that has already achieved a place in a greater universal society. How fast we get there and what our importance will be to that community depends on many factors. At present, our government is controlling this aspect of our knowledge and until that has changed there will never be a true relationship. I firmly believe that if our government and other governments that have full knowledge of this contact do not come forward and make the announcement to the world, then the aliens will do it themselves, which most certainly will cause some panic.
SURFING: How long do you believe our government has had the knowledge that we are not alone in the universe?
MAYNARD: That is hard to say, but I believe the United States Government --but not necessarily the elected government-- had some knowledge of an alien presence as early as the mid-1800's. However, as to when official contact was made, I have never seen anything in writing on a specific date. Although, through the tracking of rumors, other stated information, and conversations I have had, I would estimate that official contact was made in the early to mid-1930's. Yet, it could have been as early as pre-WWI (1910-14), which is long before today's popular belief of the 1950's. Therein, because of the limited (congressional and executive branch) knowledge, the government as a whole was not prepared for the UFO crashes that occurred in the late 1940's and early 1950's.
Because of this, the government stumbled dramatically, giving rise to speculation and conspiracy theories. However, with the speed of today's communications, the conspiracy advocates have a tendency to provide far more information on the event than actually occurred. Therefore, society is left with the feeling of being off balance, because of who does and does not have knowledge of extraterrestrial life.
SURFING: You state: "I firmly believe that if our government and other governments that have full knowledge of this contact do not come forward and make the announcement to the world, then the aliens will do it themselves."
MAYNARD: Yes, I firmly believe this, and have believed it for at least the last 20 years.
SURFING: If contact has been ongoing for as long as you believe that it has, why the sense of urgency from the alien standpoint to make this announcement now?
MAYNARD: I came to the conclusion that something was not quite right between the aliens and the people who were in contact with them. Not so much that it was stated outright, but just something that was said while I was doing background checks on cross-referenced documents. Also, in statements made during conversations with several fellow workers and my friends who worked at Area 51, it became obvious that all was not right at Groom Lake. Furthermore, other discreet conversations had indications that there was a confrontation going on between higher authority and those that had daily contact with the aliens.
However, I never learned exactly what the problems were. All I could grasp from the conversations was that there definitely was a confrontation of some kind. I have continued my research on this and believe that it is still going on today, but in a more heated sense, such as armed belligerence on both sides, with a much smaller alien presence.
SURFING: When you say "higher authority," do you mean persons higher up in the chain of command?
MAYNARD: I am referring to the chain of command. Yes!
SURFING: You state: "discreet conversations had indications that there was a confrontation going on between higher authority and those that had daily contact with the aliens."
Can you tell us anything about what the nature of this "daily contact" entails?
MAYNARD: There are certain government installations (military and/or civilian), where daily UFOs and Alien contact was, and is, a normal event of the day. They are:
Groom Lake (Area 51) in Nevada.
Dugway Proving Grounds in Utah.
Cheyenne Mountain (Space Command) in Colorado.
White Mountain in Arizona.
Places where it was not a normal daily activity were:
California - Lawrence Livermore Laboratories, El Toro and China Lake Naval Air Stations, and Edwards Air Force Base.
New México - Sandia Base and Los Alamos Laboratories.
Florida - Eglin, MacDill and Maxwell AF Bases, which also supported the Space Centers at Canaveral and Kennedy.
Maine - Loring AFB.
There were other places that had some activity, that are of lesser importance and would cloud the issue. For simplicity, I would estimate (without having to sit down with a map and counting each and every one) that there are at least 80 [eighty] government installations, and the number could be higher, throughout the country as a whole. Further, as regards these installations, I am unable to provide any specific details on the types of daily activities that were conducted at any of these locations, with probably the exception of Cheyenne Mountain.
SURFING: Please, tell us more about what you know about the daily events at Cheyenne Mountain.
MAYNARD: First off, I want you to understand a little of the background of Cheyenne Mountain which will give the reader an image of what we are talking about as it concerns daily contact.
Long before there was an organization called Space Command, there was the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD), set up to protect the North American continent from attack. This was the main reason for building the complex in Cheyenne Mountain. The main purpose of this joint US/Canadian organization was to support the Strategic Air Command (SAC) and the missile Air Defense Program.
As time progressed, satellite surveillance was incorporated in the command structure of a little-known organization called the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). The NRO is basically a black ops-type organization that has kept its main role in SAC as a basic cover for the new command.
It was the task of the NRO to obtain information through ARIEL and/or satellite imagery. As more and more space activity became involved in the process, another command was developed to handle this alone; this is called the Space Command. It is the Space Command's responsibility to maintain an uninterrupted and consistent data flow of daily activities in earth, near space, and of space vehicles entering our atmosphere. This Command is supported by all military organizations, jointly, as well as NASA and several companies from the military-industrial complex, such as Hughes, EG&G, Dryden, and SAC. All of these organizations provide budget, manpower and support activities, and it is a shared process to some degree, whereas the NRO is basically an Air Force-run operation supported by all of the military commands. All three organizations, NORAD, NRO, and the Space Command are mission supported directly by the NSA, and in turn supply processed information to the NSA.
The Space Command acts like an air traffic controller for all the activity involved in and around North America. I have been working on getting information to substantiate my allegations surrounding the daily contact.
Over the past few years there have been incidents reported or alleged that would indicate a daily UFO and/or EBE contact. Although these incidents are, at most, suspect, there seemed to be too many factors unrelated in each incident that struck a familiar chord. After thoroughly examining each of the incidents (which I do not feel comfortable naming at this time), and in the course of my cursory investigation of the incidents, I noted similarities and patterns of disinformation being used that would make people scoff at what was stated. After applying my knowledge of disinformation I began to see the truth in each of the incidents. This caused me to intensify my own investigation, which is ongoing at this time, and involves more than just the Cheyenne Mountain Complex.
I hope to have a document ready to publish with the results of what I have found, later this fall or winter.
SURFING: Many people have reported abduction experiences. They describe being taken against their will by aliens (usually described as the Greys) and subjected to some sort of medical examination. Some of these abductees have also witnessed U.S. Military personnel present during the abduction experiences. What do you know about the abduction element in all of this?
MAYNARD: I was never exposed to any direct information on abductions. I knew that there were cases being investigated, but I never saw any reports. On a personal note, I would have to say that abductions have occurred and still are occurring today. Other than that, I do not believe I can offer anything further on this matter.
SURFING: Why do you think the aliens decided to interact with the government, rather than directly with the people?
MAYNARD: Over the years many statements have been written (fiction and/or nonfiction) concerning the best approach to this delicate subject, and I tend to agree with many of those statements. It is apparent that our species has been controlled to the large part by the government and media. Whereas the "Star Trek Prime Directive", is probably the most famous statement, and most agree could be the most likely scenario. However, as beings being observed for at least the last several thousand years, give or take a millennia, it will probably be less of a surprise to us in this day and age than previously thought; "Details at 11".
Yet, the factors with which we govern ourselves do not exactly bring out the best part of us. Therefore, if I were an alien studying this planet and its societies, I might be a little apprehensive about charging into the open and announcing my presence. I would probably contact one, two, or more of the major governments and work with them, and when the time was right, make a joint announcement and let history take its course. Still, regardless of what one might say, once governmental contact was made and working arrangements had been ongoing, any announcement is not timely and may also be unproductive. That is, until it is apparent that disclosure is necessary. In these instances, the amount of the populace's knowledge is a big factor in determining the proper time to make the announcement.
The other side of that coin might be that contact was made millennia ago, and through design, it was decided that an alien presence would be counter-productive to our planetary society growth. In that case, nondisclosure might be the best scenario. Then again, if the contact had a positive reception and disclosure had been made, interaction might be a common factor in our society, and would no more be thought of than what you think of your neighbor. Some believe, as well --as I do-- that we might have had an even better planetary society, had acknowledgement of contact occurred positively and openly from the beginning. Primarily, you have to remember that contact is a two-way street, both parties have to be in agreement with the action to achieve the best results.
SURFING: So, are you saying that the aliens might be operating in a fashion similar to the "Prime Directive" of Star Trek fame?
MAYNARD: There is always that possibility, but I do not believe that is the case entirely.
SURFING: That perhaps the aliens have not revealed themselves directly to us so as not to affect our natural course?
MAYNARD: Truthfully, I am not sure if our government --or the aliens-- are the cause for the non-disclosure at this point, although personally I feel that the former is the stronger possibility. I firmly believe that if it were up to the aliens, disclosure would have been made long ago. Why else would there be so many open sightings, personal information from people all over the world, and near-encounters with aliens? Also, why would the government work so hard at denying it?
SURFING: Is it possible that the course of humanity has now reached a place where we are supposed to know of their existence?
MAYNARD: Really now, Theresa, "the course of humanity!" What course? Other than our current technology, we have not progressed very far at all. If it were not for our technology we might have thrown ourselves back to the Stone Age, or had another Dark Age. Remember it was just a little over a hundred years ago that we were fighting over the ownership and freedom of slaves, and we overwhelmed an indigenous people and force them, even today, to live as prisoners of war. We have also fought two major wars, and I have lost count of the smaller countries' civil, and revolutionary conflicts that have been played out in the last few decades. Along this line I like the line from Jurassic Park: "We were so busy playing god we forgot to ask the most important question: should we?"
In a way, I think there is a distinct possibility, as it concerns alien contact and the disclosure thereof, that our government, in its interaction playacting with the alien society forgot to ask should we?
SURFING: On the Disclosure Project website is listed the following:
Mr. John Maynard: DIA Official
"Of corporations involved in this matter, Atlantic Research Corporation is one of the big ones. So it's not very often heard about. It's an insider beltway bandit, if you want to call it that; very low profile, mostly has all of its work done within Intelligence. TRW, Johnson Controls, and Honeywell: all of them at some point or another became involved with the Intelligence field. Certain works, activities were contracted out to them. Atlantic Research was one of them, way back.
These are entities that were created out of people in the Pentagon to become a 'beltway bandit' -[businesses or research institutes that] receive projects, grants, and monies to do certain projects that were so highly classified and compartmentalized that you know only about four people would know what was going on. So it was that tightly controlled."
SURFING: Regarding these highly classified projects that you speak of involving U.S. Corporations: according to your research, were these corporations involved in "defensive" measures against the so-called "alien threat", backward engineering of captured or shared alien technologies, or all of the above and more? What can you tell us?
MAYNARD: The title should have read "US Army Retired, DIA" but that is OK, the point of accreditation is well made.
The Department of Defense has had an ongoing program since the mid-1950's, which provided contracts to U.S. Civilian Contractors/Organizations/Corporations that worked in the intelligence community. These projects came under very tight security and usually were very highly compartmentalized. What this means is that you have several concentric circles: the closer you are to the inner circle the more information you could find on the project. The further you get away from this inner circle, the less information is available. All this is established on a very strict need-to-know basis. Within these circles you could, if you looked hard enough, find contractors that worked on various parts of the project but really had no idea what the overall project was. This also happened with the military's interaction with the primary contractor. Also in this respect, each military branch had certain projects that came under the compartmentalization security measures.
What is meant by this compartmentalization is simply the classification of a document or project, whether it is classified as Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret. However, when they are named, such as; UMBRA (UM), MAJESTIC (MJ), OMNI (OM), or TALENT KEYHOLE (TK), the compartmented program becomes an entity unto itself. The projects and the circle of knowledge draw very tight toward the center and access is granted or denied from within that circle.
Therefore, you can literally talk with a top official in the Pentagon, but unless he has the authorization for that particular project, he probably does not know that it exists. If he does know it exists, he knows nothing about it. Knowing the simple rules of classification helps in identifying the right person to talk with.
SURFING: One of the planks in the disclosure project platform is:
"To enact legislation which will ban all space-based weapons."
Do you believe projects like the planned U.S. Anti-missile defense program are somehow related to the extraterrestrials?
MAYNARD: My political view on this is, since we cannot get along with anyone on this planet, we justify our choice of weapons with which to defend ourselves. My ideological view is that we should BAN all of our weapons, throw out our monetary systems, return to a bartering system and live in harmony with each other. Science should be shared with everyone, not just the privileged.
SURFING: But do you believe that some of these space-based weapons are actually being designed to do battle with extraterrestrials? If so, what effect will building them have on our "relationship" with the aliens?
MAYNARD: Does anyone know? We officially have not been told that our government or any other government is in contact with aliens. So how can we have a relationship? One can only speculate at this point.
I firmly believe that we still have a basic fear of ourselves, thus anything alien is a basic fear for all humans. Those in power play on this point to maintain their need to have weapons for self-defense, be it singular or mass destruction. As you know, we have two sides to every coin and you walk on one side at a time. Then there are those that walk on the edge between both sides. The problem comes to us as 'where do you want to stand?'. This is something each of us has to ask ourselves at one point or another.
However, that is not the problem. The problem is that we do not have any independent thinkers in our society who would stand on that edge to bring the stability that is needed. If there are any, they fear the controllers of society (government and money) because they dare to be different. In this regard, the governments justify their weapons of mass destruction, not only from a point of national defense, but planetary as well. I have always believed that whatever the alien presence is on this planet, those that interact within those limited secret confines, do so with a set of values that are very misguided and prejudiced --to the point of paranoia. There are no liberals in this group! Particularly when it comes to basic human capabilities, and likewise, their regard for the aliens.
Simply, we have one US Air Force General making waves about weaponizing space. Yet, the government has signed a treaty with other nuclear-capable countries, agreeing not to bring weapons of mass destruction into space.
SURFING: What do you think is the reasoning behind the government secrecy and not wanting to share knowledge of an extraterrestrial interaction with Earth?
MAYNARD: Not a simple question to answer and we seem to be walking all around this question. I have had this question asked before and have thought about it for some time, at least for the past 35 years. Yet any answer I come up with does not really say it all.
Two of the top theories as I see it are 'GREED' and 'SECRET GOVERNMENT' theories. If you look at greed within the government (the old master and slave routine), as one possibility, it comes out with a very strong case. Then, of course, you have the 'Secret Government' concept, not as strong as greed, but a very good contender in many circles. However, the all-time theory, I believe, is 'POWER', total and complete unchecked power, which is a combination of greed and secrecy. This is what I believe has kept this covered up for so long and will continue to keep parts of it hidden, never to be released.
Therein, I think that the Disclosure Project has the right idea: simply disclose that UFOs and aliens exist.
The rest will come later as Congress gets into the act and really finds out what the military has been up to for the past 40, 60, or more, years. Even at that, there will be certain aspects that will be held very tightly and will never see the light of day, as far as the average American citizen is concerned, and, in all due respect to its power, Congress also.
SURFING: In your opinion, what effect would full disclosure have on our social, religious and political organizations?
MAYNARD: Let me take each one of these aspects of our lives in reverse order:
Political life and organizations: When it comes to UFOs and alien contact, in our current system, at least 98 percent of our elected officials are as much in the dark as the rest of our citizens. It is also a simple fact that our elected officials are so greedy that they have not been able to look beyond that greed to what has been happening in our country, but I should add that this is not all-inclusive. As for world organizations, primarily within the leadership, such as the UN, and industrial nations, their current level of knowledge probably goes beyond what the American populace is aware of, yet, it is still shrouded in secrecy to the nth degree.
Religious organizations: For the most part, the majority will be totally and utterly devastated and receive a blow to their theology. Yet, there will be a full element within the religious community that will take this in stride and will not be shaken by the announcement. It will be that element that leads the way to a greater understanding of the scriptures and the theology of a one-God concept.
Social aspects: This is probably the most difficult to predict or provide an assessment for. I would have to say that, as a whole, the social aspects of an alien presence will have a dramatic effect at first, which is a given fact.
However, there have been many more similar types of changes in our social structure, some subtle, while others [are] more dramatic. Each change basically was taken in the essence for what was burst on the scene. Although, some of these changes did not come naturally or easily, in that some were caused by civil wars or revolutions, while others were a cause-and-effect on society over a period of time. Still, the power to conquer flight, the automobile, mass transit, and onward to space travel --in other words, basic technology-- have all been taken in stride. I feel that our social aspects will survive, and yes, there will be some suicides and possibly some type of conflict over this knowledge. But the change will come, and it will probably be for the better.
SURFING: From the understanding you have as someone who has worked in the field of disinformation, please give us a brief explanation of exactly how disinformation works.
MAYNARD: Disinformation or misinformation: The art of provided information in a form that has a certain amount of truth in the statement to make it a plausible answer to a question or a possible solution to the topic at hand. Yet, if employed correctly will lead the person to believe the opposite of what is correct, in other words, come to the wrong conclusions.
Once the conclusion is stated in the wrong context of the information, it will continue to progress down the wrong path leading the person(s) astray. However, you can still see a thread of the truth that was stated, which keeps you [away from] or leads you away from the real truth. You are eventually so far off base with your conclusions, that you yourself have lost sight of the truth, and are ready to believe anything that is stated on the subject, right or wrong.
SURFING: Can you give me some specific examples of disinformation campaigns related to UFOs that you were involved with, or had knowledge of in your intelligence career?
MAYNARD: Not a specific example (I am keeping them for Congress), but the process of disinformation might help. A simple program, say changing the shape of an object, such as flying saucers. State the real fact of what was stated, but add that you 'thought it was saucer-shaped', and suggest that the person who was looking at it from a different angle, saw something like this: "You said it was cigar-shaped, I thought it was more of a saucer shape myself, probably the angle made the difference." If you keep repeating this eventually they will believe it was saucer- shaped. The truth: the person saw a cigar-shaped object. You changed their minds, and that is what will be reported.
Somewhere during the discussion on shape you suggest something else contrary to what has been stated. You start combining these statements into an untruth, then, during the heat of the discussion, you whisper in an unsuspecting ear a statement against what someone else has just stated. From that point on you are probably not needed to continue the untruth, and those in the discussion will continue down the wrong path until they believe something entirely different from what was originally stated.
You can do the same thing in written statements by starting with the basic facts worded in such a way,that, by themselves, they are true, but collectively, you have changed the truth of the matter. You simply add to the truth with more rhetoric that is just 'off', and eventually, you will get an untruth stated. You then wait for a reply and rebut the statement, or agree, if it is in line with what you have said. After that point, you can continue adding statements until you are so far from the truth that most wonder where it all started. The nice point about this type of disinformation is that anyone can pick up on the thread and continue the untruth without suspecting that they are keeping the discussion moving in the wrong direction. However, if the writer has a perception of the truth, you can simply bring up earlier points that lead away from the truth, and state them as fact --which will lead the reader to the path you have taken on the subject.
By now you have probably noted things in your own daily living in line with what I am writing. Basically, everyone uses some kind of disinformation or misinformation in their daily lives. They tell the truth, but not all of the truth, [just to] where the reader or listener has to draw their own conclusions. If you want them to know the truth, then you tell them; if not, a person will usually continue on a path that takes the other person away from the truth.
We call this lying in the general sense; however, it is so common today that most do not realize that they are doing it.
SURFING: What standards do you use in evaluating information now, as a private citizen, to discern what is disinformation and what is not?
MAYNARD: First off, I believe that you need some training in the discernment of what is and is not disinformation.
For example: a thread is initiated by one of the members of a discussion group -- such as your list of participants that have signed up for your email service. Next, I follow the thread to see where the initiator is leading the reader. After that, I look at repeated points, ignored statements and, confrontational points, and how each of the points were handled.
From these three elements or characteristics of the thread, you can usually, by reading the very first statement, find the truth of the original statement and then determine which direction the writer has taken you. If they are taking you away from the basic truth, look for subsequent statements that lead away from that one truth.
Here is where gut instincts come into play. If the writer is continuing down the path in what you determined were true statements at the beginning, and you have a feeling that something is not right in the direction, you are probably right. Go back to the beginning and see what changed from the original statement. If it is disinformation that is being spread, the subtleties of the statements may not jump out at you at first, but generally they are very glaring points of truth and untruth.
I hope this makes it a little clearer for you. One of the classic recent disinformation programs used by the government was the TWA 800 crash, particularly the point about a missile attack on the plane. I found a simple thread as did many others, but it took a lot of work to find the misleading information once the disinformation program had been put in place.
It is a matter of reading and re-reading statements to find the subtle changes that detract from the truth of the matter. Discovering the truth in disinformation is difficult and very time consuming.
And, by the way, you can use the same program in reverse to bring out the truth, but you really need to know what you are doing.
SURFING: I am sure in your life, you have had the experience of having had someone lie to you. When this happens, it makes it difficult to believe anything that person ever says to you again. Due to the deception that people have experienced from their governments for so many years, it is not surprising that people question the motives behind government disclosure. With all due respect to you, what can you say to those who believe the Disclosure Project is a clever disinformation campaign?
MAYNARD: What do you do with people who lie? I might also ask, have you never lied to anyone, Theresa? You don't have to answer that! However, think about what you have said. We all know the government does not allow anything to be stated unless it is in their own best interest; what some people call a lie is a matter of perception on the government's part. The military has provided the basic government agencies that are aware of EBEs and UFOs with false information. This in turn provides a false impression of what the public knows or believes. Therefore, the perception by the government is poor judgment on their part.
However, consider this: we are humans, and being so, continually wear a mask to hide our true feelings and intentions. When someone asks you how you are, how do you reply? The general answer is 'fine, how are you?'. Cordial and polite-- but it could be the furthest thing from the truth. Every day we play our little games with each other, and, depending on how we actually feel, is how we react.
While in the military, I had to go through several years of in-depth psychology classes to basically learn the language of body language. I was also trained in the martial arts, which included the methodology in knowing your adversary, the spiritual aspects of training to apply the art, and how to avoid a confrontation. Today, I work in a full spirit of cooperation with all my co-workers, where --I do not boast when I say this-- people prefer to work with me, as there have been no confrontations that I could not quench. Although, it took me a long, long time to learn this. Whereas, my wife is what they call a natural, so what it took me years to learn, she has the natural ability to do. She can read body language and defuse confrontational situations many times with a simple hand gesture and a pleasant voice. She has never taken any psychology or martial arts courses and has no knowledge of the spiritual aspects of these areas either. It just comes naturally to her, and at times I can be very envious of that ability. So, I am not perfect either, but we do work well as a team. Just a long-winded way of saying each individual has to make up their own mind as what to do with those they catch in a lie.
As for the dissenters you allude to, I doubt that you or I will ever change their minds on the disinformation point. Which concludes that they usually have preconceived notions and, for the most part, are very close-minded in their arguments.
As regards your statement "the Disclosure Project is nothing more than a clever disinformation campaign," that, I can assure you, is the furthest thing from the truth. But then you would expect someone associated with the Disclosure Project to say something like that.
When Dr. Greer and I mutually agreed to meet on this matter, he stated his reasons for creating and doing this project up front. It took me a long time to come to grips with the impact of that statement and where it might lead.
I discussed his statement, and the facts surrounding my involvement with my family. I had to assure them, as much as myself, that this was a project that was, for better or worse, needed, and that our government had to finally disclose its knowledge of UFO and alien contact. It still took me, to my own satisfaction, several conversations with Dr. Greer to determine that what the dissenters state was not the case.
Ultimately, I found Dr. Greer to be a very upfront person with his commitment, which one would expect, but also, that he never attempted to hide anything from those that agreed to participate in the program with him. Basically, it boils down to the fact that we are the 'Disclosure Project,' we are his support group, and without these core witnesses he has put together there would be no 'Disclosure Project'. Do we believe in what we are doing? Yes, I believe that every one of us believes in this project and what Dr. Greer is doing.
If anyone can be accused of disinformation out of the 20 or so witnesses at the National Press Club on May 9th, it probably could be me. I am asking people to literally accept my testimony without proof, and simply based on the fact that I was in the military for more than 21 years and worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency and other commands concerning military intelligence. It still boils down to not having physical proof, but that does not mean that I don't know the truth about UFOs and ETs.
About two years ago, I was interviewed by Linda Moulton Howe. She was looking for proof and all I could offer her was my knowledge. We both agreed at that time proof would be the necessary key. In this regard, it now means that, although I cannot produce proof, I can produce the desired effect that the Disclosure Project asks for.
I have the knowledge and I know the players in the government, and it is my goal to have them brought before Congress, under oath, to explain why disclosure has never been allowed, and answer questions pertaining to the other witnesses' observations and information. When this happens, the truth will be brought forth and then we all can make up our minds as to what to do with it.
Like I have stated at other times, "hindsight has 20/20 vision." I could have taken a chance and copied documents; it was truly simple enough and not that I had not thought about it. I could have copied them, taken them somewhere, and hidden them for safe-keeping until a time such as this. However, the chance that I could have been caught outweighed the thought of accomplishing such a task. If I had, I probably would not be sitting here typing this answer. Everyone eventually gets caught, and they are locked up, never to be heard from again, and I could not face that. I am a free person and would like it to stay that way.
SURFING: I want to tell you, that working on this interview with you has brought home the paradigm-shifting reality of what the Disclosure Project is really about. If I were to say the exact things that you have said regarding UFO's and ET, It would not have the gravity that your credentials bring to the information. I believe this speaks to Dr. Greer's vision in putting together this project with witnesses like you. I understand that the Disclosure Project is going on a National Tour. Can you provide information as to what is coming up next?
MAYNARD: Thank you, the feeling is mutual.
Basic information can be obtained, including the speaking schedule for Dr. Greer, at the Disclosure Project website www.disclosureproject.org. I personally plan on being present at some of the talks. I was with Dr. Greer and other members of the briefing team in Charlottesville, VA, on August 1. There were about 500 in attendance during that meeting, and for a middle-of-the-week, 3-hour session, that says a lot. Currently, Dr.Greer will be giving his presentation in the western and mid-western states, followed by Washington DC, New York state and Canada. He is also scheduled to speak in London, which I may try to attend also, schedule permitting.
John Maynard's Concluding remarks:
MAYNARD: One quick note regarding weapons in space: I have two simple statements. First, I believe and pray that all weapons in space will be banned. Secondly, I am also practical in understanding that where there are humans, there will always be a weapon of some kind involved.
Reflecting back on what has been said in this and other interviews, makes me even more determined to see the Disclosure Project through, no matter what the consequences might be. We must be making some big progress because the 'masters of disinformation' personalities are stepping up to their microphones and trying to make it sound like we are a bunch of crackpots.
So what do you believe? I know what I believe! I believe in what Dr. Greer has started, how he has pulled the people and resources together to present a powerful message to the American people, and to ask for disclosure by our government --a message that has been denied by our government for far too many years. In this regard, I do not believe that it any longer matters that the government has not disclosed the fact that UFO and Extraterrestrials have visited earth on a regular basis. What matters is that the government finally stops playing its denial role and tells the truth. Yes, the truth that we have been visited repeatedly by non earth entities, who fly in and out of our space in craft that have been sighted and photographed for many years by people just like you. It is time that our government brings this knowledge to full disclosure, not only to the American people, but also to the world as a whole, allowing other governments to follow in this brave new unfolding of our history.
I also believe, that once a full disclosure has been achieved, all of the world's population will realize that we can achieve world peace, without weapons, through the technology and assistance from our galactic neighbors. It is my hope that the people of earth will force their governments to seek this peace; World Peace. I have heard that phrase so often that I never thought we had a hope or glimmer that it could really be possible, but it is. It is a matter of making people understand, no matter who they are, that the only solution for a more tolerant peace in our own world is to maintain peace beyond our worldly confines.
It boils down to this: Disclosure first, Peace second, and no weapons in space, third! A beautiful way to really get the new millennium rolling.
This interview was conducted by Theresa de Veto for Surfing The Apocalypse.
Copyright © 2001 Surfing The Apocalypse http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.com All Rights Reserved
Date of first publication: October 04, 2001
DISCLOSURE PROJECT: 'CARTER WHITE HOUSE DENIED UFO INFO'
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